I'd be fu*#ing pissed!

[JoeyBear]

I was hoping this was either a type or a joke. Sadly, it's neither. I feel bad for anyone who bought these shitty-ass cigars and took it in the a$$ as far as price goes.

http://www.cigarplace.biz/index.cfm/?s=1&a=catalog.search&keyword=live

[PAINT]

WELL i did,thanks for reminding me bro!!

[ngetal]

ditto... http://www.repeat-offenders.net/forum/style_emoticons/default/ranting.gif

though I found it mildly amusing that when I clicked on the 'more info' link, the list it brought up showed they were selling a 5-er for the same price as a full box... :eek:

[BeerAdvocate]

Thats just wrong on so many levels. I wonder if anyone posts that link to cigarplace.biz on CL, how long it will take to get deleted? Regardless, people should know about it.

[JoeyBear]

Not only were they shitty cigars, but the labels were fugged up and they were ridiculously priced for being Gran Habanos leaf. I smoke 5 total and never got more than an inch into them before they had to hit the rocks. I gave away 3 and felt rotten about it.

[Webmeister]

That place has been one of my regular online stops when I go looking for stuff. Guesw Mike is going to be getting even more business from me! :D

J/K - The only thing I've ordered from them lately were the RP Edge Sumatra. That's one hellacious price reduction if you ask me...

[Scoop]

Thats just wrong on so many levels. I wonder if anyone posts that link to cigarplace.biz on CL, how long it will take to get deleted? Regardless, people should know about it.

Do you want me to post a link and see? Never mind some one already did.

[BeerAdvocate]

I was thinking about posting it in the cigar specials section and simply say "if you havent got your Live Cigars yet, this place has the best prices". That way they cant really ban you or delete the post because you are not bad mouthing or anything.

[JoeyBear]

I did it already :) Seriously, though, Daniel should feel like a turd for screwing his BOTLs like that! George Rico should be embarassed about the quality of those dog rockets.

[BeerAdvocate]

I threw my 2cents in

[Webmeister]

Wow - over a half hour already and it's still there. Someone is asleep at the switch or the ban hammer is in the shop.

[Rocky Rulz]

I was gifted one of these Turdsticks. It was horrible, and the filler and binder were causing the wrapper not to burn. CL Screws us again

[JohnRider]

Wow - over a half hour already and it's still there. Someone is asleep at the switch or the ban hammer is in the shop.

I was the hammer. :punk:

[Webmeister]

I was the hammer. :punk:

ROFLMAO!!! Stop it John! You don't know how bad Monster hurts when it shoots out your nose...

[PAINT]

I agree totally guys those cigars were poor quality to say the least the worst quality of any cigar i have ever had so what do i do with a box with 15 left in it?expensive fodder...

[Webmeister]

I agree totally guys those cigars were poor quality to say the least the worst quality of any cigar i have ever had so what do i do with a box with 15 left in it?expensive fodder...

You never know - they might be good with some age on them. Say about 200-300 years...

[PAINT]

You never know - they might be good with some age on them. Say about 200-300 years...
You could be right but something tells me i don't have that long!!!:drill:

[Scoop]

You could be right but something tells me i don't have that long!!!:drill:

Bomb Puff Daddy Jon with them!:thumbs:

[PAINT]

Bomb Puff Daddy Jon with them!:thumbs:

I like your style bro..:thumbs:That is one great idea...:blum3:

[cboor001]

So how do the GAR's compare? do they suck too? I have one, don't know if I want to smoke it now, if there is a possibility I might throw up into my mouth. Yuck!

[matt257]

So how do the GAR's compare? do they suck too? I have one, don't know if I want to smoke it now, if there is a possibility I might throw up into my mouth. Yuck!

I thought the GAR that I had was a very good smoke, I would definately buy more. The LiVEs that I had I had to toss, just too many burn problems.

[smokinj]

I agree totally guys those cigars were poor quality to say the least the worst quality of any cigar i have ever had so what do i do with a box with 15 left in it?expensive fodder...

I'll take 'em Mike

[craig]

I like them. It is nice to smoke something different once in a while. I don't know if I'll buy more boxes, but it was a fun idea.

Once puff came in, the cigars lost any special value they had - and they really couldn't be sold. A blowout price was predictable and inevitable. That's the way the industry works. High initial price for the hype-swallowers, then a lower price for the interested, and then clear it out if there's no more interest.

I would have thought that the clearout would've been publicized on CL or GARLive first, but that's just politeness.

[baba]

Thank for this thread. I was considering trying these - but not now. I'm a glad I didn't waste my money

[Webmeister]

I was going to say something similar Craig. CL's days are numbered and it was only inevitable the LIVE cigars would be unloaded. Could it have been handled better PR-wise with say a pre-emptive announcement? Definitely. Would the repercussions have been the same? Maybe, maybe not.

[ctiicda]

ROFLMAO!!! Stop it John! You don't know how bad Monster hurts when it shoots out your nose...

I do lol Did it yesterday... they need some age cuz they burned comming out the nose lmao..That is funny.

[Webmeister]

I do lol Did it yesterday... they need some age cuz they burned comming out the nose lmao..That is funny.

Hmmm... I'll make sure I don't do that when my Franks get here. Someone else mentioned they may have been rushed out the door too soon.

I was referring to a Monster energy drink though. Everything smells funny now. :dizzy:

[Cigary]

You never know - they might be good with some age on them. Say about 200-300 years...

:drill: That's it, Mike,,,,:jumpy: stir that pot. I really considered maybe purchasing a box of these and with all of these reviews,,( still laughing as to how they are being regarded ) I guess even at the current price with the $1 shipping it's still a big fat NO!!

[jitzy]

sadly I think when the board sold the cigar and all the plans for it fell by the wasteside. Do I think they could have gone a different way about letting us all know? Who knows people would have still bitched about it so what difference would it make. Plus at this point I don't think Daniel has anything to do with the cigar anymore and now George's dad is just trying to break even. Don't know if this is fact but that's the way it seams. The reason I say this is cause when jim from mind of men wanted some Daniel told him he had to talk to George and he didn't have anything to do with it anymore. Do I think it sucks sure just like I think it sucks when I buy something from C.I. Just to see the price go down lower in an email special a week later.

[TravelingJ]

I was one of the poor suckers that bought into the bullshit that these cigars were. I was brand new to the board, and thought it seemed like an awesome way to support what seemed to be a really cool site, and get some sticks out of it.

Then it turned into the biggest cluster-fuck ever. I don't think I saw a single stick for months. The boxes were pure garbage, I think I once dropped a pile of scrap-wood, and it managed to form a better container.

It really was a weird thing for me. I found CL and thought it was so awesome. I jumped on their cigars, and it gave me so many headaches. Then I started to see all the bullshit that Daniel continued to pull. It was sad. I don't mind supporting a small business that's trying to make a few bucks, but I hate nothing more than a bait and switch redirection.

[vivalanation734]

Wow!!! That's freaking crazy... the blues were a pretty big let down.

[mikejh]

i will never smoke one

[Deuce]

Wow, what a big joke the lives turned out to be! I guess this is one time i can thank god i was broke at the time something was released LOL

[vivalanation734]

Wow, what a big joke the lives turned out to be! I guess this is one time i can thank god i was broke at the time something was released LOL

It actually is quite pathetic.

[patefengreen]

So who's up for a box split? Anyone? How about a split box? Anyone? Bueller? :Pun_alert:

[JoeyBear]

So who's up for a box split? Anyone? How about a split box? Anyone? Bueller? :Pun_alert:

:thumbup:

Remember, according to Daniel, you don't have the right to say anything negative and should focus on having Troy's dinner ready and the house cleaned :airquotes:

me :zapp: you

[tobacmon]

I stood back and watched people buy these smokes and I am one to try before I buy--especially a box for the price they were asking. For a few more bucks there are many,MANY great cigars out there.Sorry that some of you got something that was not what you expected. I wonder who made the money on those???? I'll give you 3 guesses and the the second 2 don't count!

I have a Blue in the box that I received in a PIF and will try it next week just to see just how bad they really are.:wallbash::wonky:

[ngetal]

I actually made the plunge and ended up with a box of each - blue and green the first time around - shipping got delayed because folks were getting damaged sticks, and I understood that Daniel was going to let me know when they were ready to go (he didn't, til after I'd messaged him to drop my initial order from two boxes to one when he replied that they were already on the way). picked up the third box (reds) when they went 'on sale'...

I'm new to cigars (that's "newb", not "n00b") :airquotes: I liked CL, but being so new I had nothing to hold it up against as a comparison - seemed friendly enough that I didn't continue looking for other boards. yeah, the price was on the high side - but I thought, George Rico is involved, and a lot of folks seem to be raving about how great the stuff from the Rico family is, so I took the plunge...

even though I got the blues and greens first, I haven't actually tried them yet - got'em sitting in the bottom of the humi, resting... I have tried the reds - I thought they were decent, but that's probably just me as I don't like the really full/strong/heavy cigars (so, don't send me Double Ligeros and the like - they kick the shit outta me... :diablo: tarzan swings on my tonsils... :scare2:)

oh, and now Daniel is wondering where I got the link for the LIVEs at cigarplace... :spacecraft:

[PAINT]

I'll take 'em Mike
The problem is i can't even send them they all have cracked the ones i have sent out all get damaged...Maybe a super wrapping and you might be the proud owner of some Dog Rockets David...:drill:

[TravelingJ]

I'll take 'em Mike

PM me your address, and I'll send you what I have left. I clipped the end of one...spent 20 minutes figuring out if it was the head or the foot, and gave up for good. If you are seriously interested, I'd just as soon clear them out.

[Darren's Godiva]

You know the more I think about the whole Live Cigar downfall, the more I think it is quite possible that the sale of CigarLive may have been because of the loss of money from the Live cigar.

Some retailers we know had smoked the Live and were highly disappointed. People we know that smoked them didn't like them, but also didn't say anything. But if you remember a thread regarding the quality of the Live cigar - Daniel's response was something like: "I wanted something different and made cigars I like. I wanted to share them and if they don't sale, then I will have plenty for me." (Not a direct quote.)

Essentially, the cigars were made for him and he was willing to share. He makes no apologies -- that's the way he was raised (Taken from Crappy Sad Bad News thread).

Personally, he doesn't care who he hurts. People always get what is coming to them, Daniel will get his.

[LkyLindy]

Here's a copy of my post on CL--I hope Dan understands the difference between selling to strangers and selling to Board members

"Dan-
I usually try to be the voice of reason and look at both sides-Much of what you say is true about selling a product to the general public-caveat emptor--This product was a different matter--The fellows on the site wanted to back you up and show their loyalty and support-The product was priced at a premium-However once received it was hardly a "premium product'-actually it was almost amateurish--the smoke itself was acceptable but construction was terrible--They should have sold at half the price--(labels on backwards pleeezzzz)--Ok we bought them--you emailed us personnally with apologies and made some vague promise about "making things up to us"-that never happened (at least not to me -2 boxes) ok for my part I don't care but was embarrassed with having to send these in a split since they were a construction nightmare(ie smokinj,jitzy,the EVP) So this huge price reduction on cigarplace is an insult in principle and reality--The guys try to do the right thing for you and the boards and find we were flimflammed albeit not intentionally( I hope)--That is why you are taking heat on this issue--It is a different and more personnal matter than just buying a product at a store and 6 months latter seeing it reduced "on sale"

[PAINT]

Here's a copy of my post on CL--I hope Dan understands the difference between selling to strangers and selling to Board members

"Dan-
I usually try to be the voice of reason and look at both sides-Much of what you say is true about selling a product to the general public-caveat emptor--This product was a different matter--The fellows on the site wanted to back you up and show their loyalty and support-The product was priced at a premium-However once received it was hardly a "premium product'-actually it was almost amateurish--the smoke itself was acceptable but construction was terrible--They should have sold at half the price--(labels on backwards pleeezzzz)--Ok we bought them--you emailed us personnally with apologies and made some vague promise about "making things up to us"-that never happened (at least not to me -2 boxes) ok for my part I don't care but was embarrassed with having to send these in a split since they were a construction nightmare(ie smokinj,jitzy,the EVP) So this huge price reduction on cigarplace is an insult in principle and reality--The guys try to do the right thing for you and the boards and find we were flimflammed albeit not intentionally( I hope)--That is why you are taking heat on this issue--It is a different and more personnal matter than just buying a product at a store and 6 months latter seeing it reduced "on sale"

I honestly don't think he cares about the cigar problems?And really there is nothing he can do now about it .It sounds like it is in Georges Dads hands now trying to sell off those shit cigars??And reclaim some revenue on the project..What a way to go out by this popping up to the C-Live members who sponsored that cigar project...I have lost some respect for the man,Sorry about the ramblings but i am seeing red right now and that is the color of the fucked up cigars i bought....:exclaim:

[Scoop]

Did they fix the bands or are they still upside down? Because it will be interesting when people get these and they come unwrapped! And it sure seems like they would have went to Daniel with this price before they released them to the public.

[jitzy]

look don't get me wrong I too am pissed over this and dissapointed. my comment about when CI sells something cheaper 6 months down the road was not meant to let anyone "off the hook" so to speak it's just a sad fact of this business something comes out sells for a lot fails at that price and then tanks on price. we all got those supporter things over our avatar but I really feel everything went different after Jon made his offers to the site at least we got something for being supporters the members of club stogie where flat out sending money in to support that site with nothing to show for it.

[jitzy]

Did they fix the bands or are they still upside down? Because it will be interesting when people get these and they come unwrapped! And it sure seems like they would have went to Daniel with this price before they released them to the public.

Daniel doesn't have anthing to do with them anymore George ricos father does and I really don't think he cares what Daniel would have to say over any of what just happened he wants to recoop some of his money.

[matt257]

This is the post I made over at CL:

I may get shot for my opinion, but it is just my opinion. Daniel will have had NO say what so ever in what price Gran Habano sold the LiVE cigar to cigarplace.com for and NO say in what cigarplace.com sell them for. I can understand why alot of people are really pissed at the situation. But I dont think it is Daniels fault. Just my 0.02

[JoeyBear]

It's funny because I keep reading that GR's father "must have...". It's GR's dad who runs the company and from what I've read in the past and even now, George was working with Daniel to get these made. I was all set to buy two boxes, if they would have been priced in line with Gran Habanos. Whomever set the price was an idiot and greedy. GH has absolutely no cigar in their line-up that's ever been that expensive. Now that GR is "on his own" which I think is still ridiculous and bullshit to tell people, his cigars are priced over and above where they should be and it will hurt them in the long run.

If there were 600 boxes produced and 50 sold, the equilibrium price should have been A LOT lower than $180, minus the 10% discount for "I'm already fu*kin ya enough". I love Gran Habanos and they're my regular smoke, but the LIVEs were such a major disappointment that I'd be weary of anything that comes out of that factory.

[BeerAdvocate]

I wonder if Cigarplace knows they taste like crap and the bands are on backwards?

[JoeyBear]

This is the post I made over at CL:

I may get shot for my opinion, but it is just my opinion. Daniel will have had NO say what so ever in what price Gran Habano sold the LiVE cigar to cigarplace.com for and NO say in what cigarplace.com sell them for. I can understand why alot of people are really pissed at the situation. But I dont think it is Daniels fault. Just my 0.02

I think Daniel was in line to make a few...a lot of $$ if those cigars wouldn't have sucked ass. I'm positive there was a mark-up for his "efforts". What's I find the saddest about the whole LIVE line is that Daniel thought they were good!

G Rico should be fucking embarassed about the quality of those cigars. My opinion is that he disgraced his talents and his father's company by releasing such an inferior product. I fear that the LIVEs will continue to disappoint and damage the Rico family reputation for making great cigars.

[PAINT]

I wonder if Cigarplace knows they taste like crap and the bands are on backwards?
I am sure they fixed that problem LOL

[jitzy]

joey the "on his own" is just that be really is. They each had different visions for the company and if you read the interview in CA when his father was asked about it he gives an answer along the lines of you know how kids think they know better there is obviously some hurt feelings between them on this. You keep saying they never had a cigar that pricey well neither did padron till the millenium came out that's just flawed logic and you know that. And before anyone thinks I'm comparing the lives to milleniums I'm not nothing compares to them.

[matt257]

I think Daniel was in line to make a few...a lot of $$ if those cigars wouldn't have sucked ass. I'm positive there was a mark-up for his "efforts". What's I find the saddest about the whole LIVE line is that Daniel thought they were good!

G Rico should be fucking embarassed about the quality of those cigars. My opinion is that he disgraced his talents and his father's company by releasing such an inferior product. I fear that the LIVEs will continue to disappoint and damage the Rico family reputation for making great cigars.

I dont know about Daniel making any $$ prior to this situation and im not about to comment on that. I just think that Daniel now has NO control over what happens to the LiVE cigars. It is upto GH. I think Daniel is being given a hard time over things that really are out of his control. Do you think GH would of asked Daniel if they could sell the LiVEs to cigarplace, and for such a low price? I dont. Again this is just my 0.02.

[PAINT]

I dont know about Daniel making any $$ prior to this situation and im not about to comment on that. I just think that Daniel now has NO control over what happens to the LiVE cigars. It is upto GH. I think Daniel is being given a hard time over things that really are out of his control. Do you think GH would of asked Daniel if they could sell the LiVEs to cigarplace, and for such a low price? I dont. Again this is just my 0.02.
Once Daniel brought these cigars to the members,it became his responsibility,And i feel it is his fault what has transpired,it is all due to his concept.And Matt did you buy these cigars?if you did you might feel like you were screwed with out even a kiss.....It's sad that these cigars were even released to the members what a poor quality cigar they made,if the quality was good they would of sold out,and we wouldn't even be having this conversation would we....:exclaim:My 1/2 cents worth...

[matt257]

Once Daniel brought these cigars to the members,it became his responsibility,And i feel it is his fault what has transpired,it is all due to his concept.And Matt did you buy these cigars?if you did you might feel like you were screwed with out even a kiss.....It's sad that these cigars were even released to the members what a poor quality cigar they made,if the quality was good they would of sold out,and we wouldn't even be having this conversation would we....:exclaim:My 1/2 cents worth...

Mike I didnt buy any of them so cant speak from your perspective. And maybe I would feel different. And believe me I feel very deeply for you that this has happened and I think it is 100% wrong, But from my perspective Daniel is receiving the bashing for something Gran Habano have done. Daniel didnt sell these to cigarplace for that price. It was nothing to do with him.

[vivalanation734]

I think one of major reasons the sales sucked was due to the fact that Daniel was trying to sell cigars at $180 that no one had tasted except for a few members. And since time slot to buy them was limited not nearly as many people as he expected ended up pulling the trigger on these.

[RedBeerd]

i cant belive they would ever try to sell those for 150abox...they had me lauffing out loud when they annonced that price for 10 cigars from Rico LOL !!!
How bout i pass and get some tatuajes !!!
since you wont sell singles or 5ers cuz you know they are rooled by dogs !!!

[Webmeister]

I think one of major reasons the sales sucked was due to the fact that Daniel was trying to sell cigars at $180 that no one had tasted except for a few members. And since time slot to buy them was limited not nearly as many people as he expected ended up pulling the trigger on these.

Prior to launch, I was set to pick up 1-3 boxes if I liked them. I can tell you why I didn't pull the trigger - 2 big reasons:

1. The price was considerably higher than anything I had ever seen from GH. Price for one box of something I'd never tried correlated to two boxes of 26 Padron 2000 maduro. Would I drop this kinda change on something I'd never tried before? Of course not!

2. Many members had asked for samplers, fivers, so we could try before buying (see point #1). Since that option was not on the table, the only way to accomplish that was to do a split. To get 2 sticks of each blend would have added a lot of $ (in postage) to what was already an overpriced box.

When reports of problems with cigars splitting, inferior box design/materials, burn problems, bands upside down, etc. surfaced the onus to make things right should have rested squarely on GH's shoulders as the manufacturer. Daniel was acting in the role of reseller.

Prior to release, we were told this would be a CL exclusive. Obviously, that is not the case anymore and I understand GH can't be expected to warehouse product that is not selling. Again, I think this can be attributed to the way sales/distribution was handled complicated by manufacturing problems. There is a sales/marketing axiom known as "fast nickel/slow dime". Sell for less, make it up in quantity. Sell for more, you risk being stuck with a lot of over-priced product which at the end of the day must be sold at a loss to unload it.

Once the pricing was announced and boxes sold to members, Daniel was put between a rock and a hard place. Cutting the price would piss off those who had already purchased. Not cutting it meant he was stuck with lots of product on his hands.

Daniel has never done this before, but GH makes a living making quality cigars, packaging, marketing, sales, and distribution. At a minimum, I would expect them to take responsibility for an inferior product/packaging/manufacutring errors and make that right.

I've got no dog in this hunt as I never pulled the trigger. I feel there is more than enough blame to go around, and GH has not shown themselves to be accountable. That to me is most disturbing especially as I find the GAR line to be quite good.

I'm getting off my soapbox now... :soapbox:

[JoeyBear]

Jitzy, do you honestly believe the GAR is a $10 cigar?? I've smoked 2 and find the flavor profile very similar to GH #5. I have 3 boxes of the #5 so I'm pretty versed on them and when I smoked the GAR, all I could think was that it had a different shape but same flavor profile. It's not better or worse, but then again, I've only had 2. I'd love to smoke more, but know they're not a $10 smoke. The logic is there that GR decided to go out on his own and his start-up costs will drive up the price of his cigars. Sadly, daddy might have been right and known best. What I remember reading when GARLive began was that GR was breaking away from his family, but renting space in the factory. He was also using the family's tobacco and rollers.

As for Daniel taking the heat about the new LIVE prices, I agree 100% that he had nothing to do with that and shouldn't be taking the heat from anyone. I do think all the early reviewers either didn't give honest reviews or they were told to give reviews or they knowingly screwed over their BOTL with bullshit reviews.

[jitzy]

as far as how much they sell for (the GAR) it's the same price as the gran habano cabinet selection and to say it's not a $10 cigar fine but you could say that about a lot of cigars not just theirs some say the opus isn't worth the money some say it is. This could be said for so many manufacturers not just them. If guys don't like a cigar cause they don't like it that fine but everyone is heated over what happened and is talking thru there emotions and there hate for Daniel. Does this whole situation suck? It sure does but to go after them cause they charge $10 for a cigar just makes no sence we have no idea what it's costing him to produce these and what his overhead costs are.

[boomerd35]

I hope Dan understands the difference between selling to strangers and selling to Board members

Exactly. That's what happens when you have a board full of "friends" and try to mix in business. I know we all wanted to see LIVE do well, but the business side of this deal was just a big mess. One problem is that I think we all thought these were Daniel's cigars, and he was the one selling them. But in the end it turns out he had little control over anything.

[cohibaguy]

Well they sound really crappy, but guess what... If someone wants to toss me one I'll give it a try:airquotes:

[JoeyBear]

One problem is that I think we all thought these were Daniel's cigars, and he was the one selling them. But in the end it turns out he had little control over anything.

I watched all the videos where Daniel went down to the factory and read all the reviews he did of the cigars where he praised how great they were and how the blends had been perfected blah blah blah. Daniel did have control over a lot and, in my opinion, put his reputation, his name, and ultimately his board on the line by hyping those pieces of shit. Go back and re-read the posts and watch the videos. Daniel was an agent for GH and GR with those cigars and cannot clain innocense or ignorance as to the anything negative about those smokes. It sucks, but as an agent selling through his forum, he must take some responsibility for the product.

I'm sure no one, especially Daniel, could have expected the flops that were LIVE cigars, but to claim he has no fiduciary responsibility as the owner of the forum and agent for the sale of cigars bearing the name of HIS forum is ridiculous. He should have said "these aren't the blend we agreed on and they aren't right".

[vivalanation734]

I blame John Caputo... lol

[pv1191]

Prior to launch, I was set to pick up 1-3 boxes if I liked them. I can tell you why I didn't pull the trigger - 2 big reasons:

1. The price was considerably higher than anything I had ever seen from GH. Price for one box of something I'd never tried correlated to two boxes of 26 Padron 2000 maduro. Would I drop this kinda change on something I'd never tried before? Of course not!

2. Many members had asked for samplers, fivers, so we could try before buying (see point #1). Since that option was not on the table, the only way to accomplish that was to do a split. To get 2 sticks of each blend would have added a lot of $ (in postage) to what was already an overpriced box.

When reports of problems with cigars splitting, inferior box design/materials, burn problems, bands upside down, etc. surfaced the onus to make things right should have rested squarely on GH's shoulders as the manufacturer. Daniel was acting in the role of reseller.

Prior to release, we were told this would be a CL exclusive. Obviously, that is not the case anymore and I understand GH can't be expected to warehouse product that is not selling. Again, I think this can be attributed to the way sales/distribution was handled complicated by manufacturing problems. There is a sales/marketing axiom known as "fast nickel/slow dime". Sell for less, make it up in quantity. Sell for more, you risk being stuck with a lot of over-priced product which at the end of the day must be sold at a loss to unload it.

Once the pricing was announced and boxes sold to members, Daniel was put between a rock and a hard place. Cutting the price would piss off those who had already purchased. Not cutting it meant he was stuck with lots of product on his hands.

Daniel has never done this before, but GH makes a living making quality cigars, packaging, marketing, sales, and distribution. At a minimum, I would expect them to take responsibility for an inferior product/packaging/manufacutring errors and make that right.

I've got no dog in this hunt as I never pulled the trigger. I feel there is more than enough blame to go around, and GH has not shown themselves to be accountable. That to me is most disturbing especially as I find the GAR line to be quite good.

I'm getting off my soapbox now... :soapbox:

+1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From looking at the GH line I thought these would have a $100 per box price point. When the $180 price tag came out I decided to hold off a little while and read some reviews. The initial few were good, then the problems started and never seemed to get resolved.

[craig]

... One problem is that I think we all thought these were Daniel's cigars, and he was the one selling them ...

Yup, that was the impression that I had very early on.

Leaving aside price - am I the only person who just assumed that these cigars would have been keystoned? - I have had no issues with the construction of these cigars. A cigar rolled the old (ancient) way of capping both ends was just asking for trouble in these days of cooler-dors or MDF/veneer-lined humidors and the resulting need for active humidification or beads. (It also appeared to have confused the people who banded the cigars.)

Those of you experiencing splitting and burn problems may want to go through your remaining cigars and clip the feet. That plus about four to six weeks will equalize the moisture inside the cigar with the RH of your humidor.

To determine which end is the foot, I pick a very little bit at a convenient spot along the edge of the wrapper (the wrapper line). At that convenient spot, the wrapper that is over-wrapped indicates which end is the head.

[boomerd35]

I blame John Caputo... lol

Hilarious :)

[Toasted Coastie]

Dude, people on another board were right about that guy. Out to make money. Period.

[Rocky Rulz]

With a name like Puff.com I doubt it. Its a bullshit name purchased from a guy that don't know dick. Daniel, has sold his soul and his reputation for what?. I guess evrybody has a price.

[Toasted Coastie]

yup.. I just asked to be removed as a statesman. screw it.

[Deuce]

yup.. I just asked to be removed as a statesman. screw it.

I asked to be removed a few weeks ago now. My only question would be how much of the initial cost was added by daniel to try and make a profit on these cigars? Im sure he had some part on how much those cigars were originally priced at.

[JoeyBear]

yup.. I just asked to be removed as a statesman. screw it.

I was removed earlier today :sneaky3:

[Toasted Coastie]

I feel bad for all the folks that shelled out the $180 for these smokes. I was gifted a couple, and the one I smoked sucked (red label) I ended up pitching it into the campfire.

Now I am going back and reading the threads about these cigars, and the more I read, the more I think that the seller sounded like a used car salesman. I'm sorry.

[BeerAdvocate]

I just cant believe nothing was done to rectify all the problems people had with these cigars. Then on top of it they come out at cheaper price later on down the road.
No longer exclusive to the members it was made for.

[Smokeing Handsome Dude]

:thumbup:

Remember, according to Daniel, you don't have the right to say anything negative and should focus on having Troy's dinner ready and the house cleaned :airquotes:

me :zapp: you
And he makes no apologies and the pots and pans have been rattled

[MrMaduro]

If anyone has some of these they want to get rid of send them my way. I'm not allowed to smoke in my equipment at work. So I buy dog rockets and chew on them all day. Then I smoke a real cigar on the way home.

Brian Holbrook
400 Kirkpatrick Rd.
Winchester, Ohio 45697

[craig]

I feel bad for all the folks that shelled out the $180 for these smokes ...

$162 - there was a 10% discount right from the beginning.

[WarHorse]

I just took a look at the website they're being dumped on and they're asking the same price for a 5er that they are for a box of 20. More guys are going to get screwed. I have a red in the box that has been sittin for awhile. I'm going to have to give it a try.....curiosity is killing me now. I'm glad I didn't buy the boxes when they came out on CL. I was really close to pulling the trigger.

[WarHorse]

yup.. I just asked to be removed as a statesman. screw it.

I saw that and I'm really close myself. It's just hard walking away from that board....it was "Home" for over a year. I keep thinking I'm going to wake up and it was all a bad Puff dream.

[ER Doc]

I saw that and I'm really close myself. It's just hard walking away from that board....it was "Home" for over a year. I keep thinking I'm going to wake up and it was all a bad Puff dream.

I've considered the same - but haven't because I didn't want to leave you by yourself. Looks like we're both thinking the same thing.

[jitzy]

the one thing in all this that has me upseat (cause I really do understand why the old man is dumping the cigars now) is from the way this seams and I don't know if this is the case you guys that asked for replacements could chime in on this but it seams like only a few got replacements.

[chubzerous]

I bought two boxes and never received any replacements!

[jitzy]

I bought two boxes and never received any replacements!

that is a huge problem right there what did they say when you asked for the replacements.

[Slow Triathlete]

I have one cigar of each color that was gifted to me. Sounds like I should just use them for firewood this winter rather than smoke them.

[boomerd35]

I bought two boxes and never received any replacements!

Man, that sucks big time. I mean, paying full price is one thing. Receiving cigars in damaged boxes with upside down labels that you can't figure out which end to smoke is another thing. But not making the situation right and dumping the rest of their inventory at fire sale prices- that just clasless and wrong. I don't care if it was Daniel, George Rico, his father, or their great grandfather Pappy Rico- just bad business.

[baboruger]

I agree about the replacements, bush league.

Were they over priced: yes
Should people feel like they got screwed: yes
Does this happen all the time where prices drop: yes

i'm not saying I agree with how the Live's were sold or anything to begin with, I was opposed to the whole thing, and thought it was silly. Anyway a story, I paid $1000 for a portable DVD player when they first came out, six months later it was $750 for the same unit. Did I get screwed? Yes, but I screwed myself. This happens all the time, the first people who buy something usually pay to much.

Who do I think are the real bad guys here, the people who posted such positive reviews about the lives when they first came out. That got everyone thinking they were good. Who am i talking about specifically, I cannot really say because it is against the rules to make personal attacks, but I remember it being TUFF to find the reviews, maybe they were in the TX section :)

Anyway, I have not been on CL posting or reading for a while now. I went on to read about this after getting a Voice Mail about it yesterday. I'm sort of tired with the board thing maybe, I don't know. I need the HERF on the 15th to get me back in the game I guess.

[chubzerous]

that is a huge problem right there what did they say when you asked for the replacements.

All mine were intact at receipt. I smoked several and had some of them unravel because of the whole upside down labels issue. I ended up bombing several people with them, (sorry guys) :oops: but I never specifically requested a refund or replacements. I thought I had read that they were going to break up some of the contents of the bad boxes and send out some 5 ers to the people that had ordered them initially, maybe I just mis-understood.
I really do not have any hard feelings, but it would have been nice to offer them to us at the discounted price.

[Rah55]

Son of a Bit*h!

[Toasted Coastie]

Son of a Bit*h!

That was fairly mild.

[Rah55]

the one thing in all this that has me upseat (cause I really do understand why the old man is dumping the cigars now) is from the way this seams and I don't know if this is the case you guys that asked for replacements could chime in on this but it seams like only a few got replacements.

I was promised some extra smokes because I bougth them at the first price before they were discounted at CL...Never got them!

[jitzy]

I was promised some extra smokes because I bougth them at the first price before they were discounted at CL...Never got them!

that's f'ked up I would honestly try and get in touch with gran habano and see if that would get anything taken care of at this point they are the only ones that have control over these cigars at this point. Maybe someone could also look into if CL itsealf and see if they are responsable in any way.

[craig]

Who do I think are the real bad guys here, the people who posted such positive reviews about the lives ... <snip>

Although neither from Texas nor tough, I stand by the generally-positive reviews that I put on CL about these cigars. In the past couple of days, I've re-smoked the red and blue, and have found no reason to change my opinion. I'd probably be buying more reds right now if I knew that they would age well. (I don't know, so Party Shorts are probably what I'll buy next. Box-split anyone? :airquotes:)

If my review makes me a "real bad guy" - well, that's your perogative, but I think everybody has tastes in cigars different from others.

(As an aside, the LIVE - and to some extent, NUb - experience should hopefully show that blind reviews are the only ones worth basing a buying decision on.)

[Rah55]

Although neither from Texas nor tough, I stand by the generally-positive reviews that I put on CL about these cigars. In the past couple of days, I've re-smoked the red and blue, and have found no reason to change my opinion. I'd probably be buying more reds right now if I knew that they would age well. (I don't know, so Party Shorts are probably what I'll buy next. Box-split anyone? :airquotes:)

If my review makes me a "real bad guy" - well, that's your perogative, but I think everybody has tastes in cigars different from others.

(As an aside, the LIVE - and to some extent, NUb - experience should hopefully show that blind reviews are the only ones worth basing a buying decision on.)

Hey I still like the smokes and stand by what I said about the Reds. It is one of my favorite medium bodied smokes but, as I got into the box the construction issues really reared their heads and just reflected a shoddy effort..

[patefengreen]

I think we all understand pricing and that things can go "on sale" or be discontinued at any point for much less than we originally paid. Yes it sucks, but it happens. However, in this instance, the members weren't buying from a faceless corporation or a huge conglomerate. They were buying from another member of the board who they all trusted dearly. That is where the hard feelings lie. Unfortunately, Stogie has never understood that concept and has now gone with the "hey it was just business" line.

As far as the reviews on the other board, it has been an understood policy (albeit unwritten, but just implied) to not "bash" or "speak ill" of anything near or dear to the admin. So if anyone didn't like them, they kept it under their hat for fear of retribution and all we got to see were the positive reviews. Really, it's a most unfortunate situation that the members didn't get the first crack at the "fire sale." I'm guessing there are those out there who did indeed like them and didn't want to shell out for the high price tag, but wouldn't have minded picking them up at these prices.

Alot of things were said that never came to fruition (i.e. pre-release samples, replacements for busted shipments, and the little "sumthin, sumthin" to take care of those who gave their support.) Essentially the follow-up/customer service was either nil or just lip service once the problems started to arise.

[matt257]

Who am i talking about specifically, I cannot really say because it is against the rules to make personal attacks, but I remember it being TUFF to find the reviews, maybe they were in the TX section :)


:lol: LMFAO :lol: I have no idea who you mean :p

[Rah55]

I think we all understand pricing and that things can go "on sale" or be discontinued at any point for much less than we originally paid. Yes it sucks, but it happens. However, in this instance, the members weren't buying from a faceless corporation or a huge conglomerate. They were buying from another member of the board who they all trusted dearly. That is where the hard feelings lie. Unfortunately, Stogie has never understood that concept and has now gone with the "hey it was just business" line.

As far as the reviews on the other board, it has been an understood policy (albeit unwritten, but just implied) to not "bash" or "speak ill" of anything near or dear to the admin. So if anyone didn't like them, they kept it under their hat for fear of retribution and all we got to see were the positive reviews. Really, it's a most unfortunate situation that the members didn't get the first crack at the "fire sale." I'm guessing there are those out there who did indeed like them and didn't want to shell out for the high price tag, but wouldn't have minded picking them up at these prices.

Alot of things were said that never came to fruition (i.e. pre-release samples, replacements for busted shipments, and the little "sumthin, sumthin" to take care of those who gave their support.) Essentially the follow-up/customer service was either nil or just lip service once the problems started to arise.

Here, here. Well put!

[Rocky Rulz]

Tough mod from TX. Gimme a break, he should put on a dress and dance for us. The Kool-aid must be real good in TX

[Fatman]

Tough mod from TX. Gimme a break, he should put on a dress and dance for us. The Kool-aid must be real good in TX

:chained: I won't get into the rumor mill, or gossipy old lady thing, but I am truely disappointed...for what ever the phuk it's worth. I've only had a couple of the RED and GREEN..if I remember correctly, the RED weren't gawd awful but I didnt enjoy the other at all. I wasnt going to buy a box 'blind'...shit, have ya ever made a night parachute jump??
GIMME FIVER, OR GIMME SAMPLER". Words to LiVE by!

[matt257]

Before this thread takes a turn for the worst. This thread is not about members of another board. It is about the LiVE cigars and the pricing. So please leave the insults on other members out of it.

[boomerd35]

Words to LiVE by!


Haha. That's hilarious. I agree tho- the only reason I didn't buy any is I can't bring myself to purchase an entire box of something I've never smoked. Even if they were made from only the finest most reserve selection of first generation tobacco aged 5 years and rolled only by the top roller in Nicaragua- if the flavor doesn't match what I like, it's a useless cigar.

[Fatman]

Not trying to slam Matt, but I am disappointed in a certain folk! Hell I'm still a member 'over there' and am a big boy..if I were loosing sleep over it, I'd rock the house there. I'm sure all are disappointed in the sale of these smokes and I'm damned sure glad I didnt go for it...I was happy with a split, etc, but i yanked the plug because something told me this was a "Night Jump"..Ok, I'm Out!

[happy1]

Never had any

[Webmeister]

I tried a green and a red - neither of which I would buy no matter what the price. Just not a match for my flavor profile I guess. The decision was really easy once the price was unveiled. Too many exceptional cigars out there to drop coin on something that I won't smoke.

[boomerd35]

I had 2 different blends, but I don't remember which ones. One of them was not bad at all. The other one not my type of flavor. But the price was way too high. I would have been open to supporting the forum. But who knows how much went to the forum and how much went to Gran Habano. I'd rather just donate $$ to the forum knowing it would have gone straight to the site.